THESIS HOLDER:
Repentance does not save anyone. It follows regeneration. It is the natural outflow from believers daily. It is this present reality of sin still in the Christian’s life that causes him/her to long for the Lord’s return.
CHALLENGER:
how you come to that conclusion? Doesn't The Bible tell us to repent and be baptized and we shall be saved?
THESIS HOLDER'S RESPONSE:
The will must first be regenerated in order to believe. Our belief does not begin the process. If so, you have saved yourself. The Holy Spirit regenerates the dead sinner. Faith is a gift. It is not of works. As Jesus said, flesh and blood did not reveal this to you.
RIVERFORUM:
While it is true that we are transformed by the renewing of our minds:
- And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:2)
To be risen with Christ is to be dead in our sins. To be dead in our sins is to have repented and have been “buried with Him in baptism”
- Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (Col 2:12)
Colossians 2:8-15 lays this out quite plainly especially verses 11:15. It speaks of the mechanics of how baptism(s) is part of the regeneration process.
- 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
- 9 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
- 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
- 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
- 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
- 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
- 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
- 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (Colossians 2:8-15)
"Buried with him" (water). "Risen with him" (spirit). And it goes on to describe the remission process that Peter described at first in Acts 2:38:
- Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
Notice how the text says “for the remission of sins”.
It does NOT say “because of the remission of sins” or even,
“because your sins are forgiven” but it says:
“FOR the remission of sins" (emphasis added), which points directly back to the word “baptised” which renders the meaning “for the purpose of”.
This is borne out by Colossians 2 (above) and 1 Peter 3:21
- The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 3:21
being first introduced in Mark 16.
- He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16)
THESIS POINT: "(Y)our belief does not begin the process. If so, you have saved yourself."
Interestingly, Peter did tell those present on the day of Pentecost "Save yourselves from this untoward generation" (Acts 2:40) implying that we actually do have to take initiative is not to impute a system of "works" or "merits" on the believer. Is it unreasonable for God to require us to BE proactive when faced with the Truth?
On the day of Pentecost, those gathered that believed Peter's message replied:
- Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (Acts 2:37)
Philip preached Jesus to the the Ethiopian Eunuch, and after believing the Gospel, the latter said to him, in Acts 8:36:
- And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? (Acts 8:36)
"what hinders me from being baptised?" Reads a lot like "What shall we do? Right? And What was Philip's answer? Well, it was just like Peter's!
- And Philip said, If you believe with all thine heart, you may. And he (the Eunuch) answered (Philip) and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.(Acts 8:37)
Belief in Jesus is shown here as a conditional prerequisite for Baptism.
IF THOU, (then) THOU MAYEST.
THESIS POINT: "(Y)our belief does not begin the process".
As just shown, belief most certainly DOES begin the process of conversion to Christian Salvation. In ALL examples of Christian conversion found in our Bible, Repentance always follows belief.
Regeneration happens after a believer repents and then is subsequently sanctified by the Spirit.
This is proven by Peter’s statement when he says in the very first message preached to believers after the ascension:
- Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
Quite clearly, this text demonstrates regeneration follows belief.
Acts 19 bears this out further when the apostles meet believing Disciples who had not been regenerated through the covenant of baptisms. Acts 19:1-7
- 1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
- 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
- 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
- 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
- 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
- 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
- 7 And all the men were about twelve. (Acts 19:1-7)
Q: Would God regenerate the unrepentant?
No.
Q: Can someone repent without belief?
No.
It is only logical to assert, as Peter did, that we must believe, repent, and be baptized (water and spirit)[in that order] to be regenerated aka reborn aka born again: John 3:3-5.
- Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
THESIS POINT: "Repentance does not save anyone."
While it is true that repentance alone does not save us. It is the COVENANT we have with Christ and the deposit of His Spirit in us by way of the New Covenant which DOES.
THESIS SUPPORTER:
Baptism isn't a requirement for salvation, it's a proclamation of your desire to follow Jesus and live a faith in Christ filled life.
RIVERFORUM
This is a popular evangelical teaching, but to assert that Baptism is not a requirement for Salvation forces one to deny many scriptures, many shown above, which speak to the contrary:
- Acts 2:37-39,
- Acts 8,
- Acts 10,
- Acts 19,
- Mark 16:16-19,
- Matthew 28:19,
- John 3:3-5,
- Colossians 2
- 1 Peter 3:21
- Mark 16:16-19
The purpose of Baptism is not to make or confirm a public statement, rather, making the "proclamation" that you believe that Jesus Christ is almighty God come in flesh, died, resurrected and ascended merely makes you an eligible candidate for the Covenant of baptism(s) - the transaction where the remission of your sins is literally applied to your life.
One cannot cherry pick scripture to fit ANY given system of theology to make that system more convenient. We must adapt our understanding to what was actually taught by Christ and his Apostles - not modern revisions.
The New Covenant does include both water Baptism and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. (aka the earnest of our inheritance (Eph 1:14) that seals us for Eternal Salvation.
This is what was referred to in Hebrews 6:2 as the "doctrine (singular) of baptisms (plural)".
- 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
- 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
- 3 And this will we do, if God permit. (Hebrews 6:1-3)
The passage above declares that these are the fundaments of the "Doctrine of Christ" in two basic categories:
- repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God;
- the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Paul is saying here that it is a foundational basic doctrine (of baptisms) that should be common with all Christians. Baptism is more inextricable from the Salvation process than many modern christians first assume, or even are willing to admit.
Knowing the difference between justification and sanctification is the key in having assurance of salvation. Sometimes folks blur the lines of these definitions which raises questions.
So let's take a moment and REALLY look at this using Peter as a threadline:
Jesus tells us we have to be born again of water and spirit
- Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
Jesus tells us we need to believe and be baptized to be saved
- He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16)
- (Jesus to Peter) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 16:19)
- And, (Jesus) being assembled together with them (Apostles), commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:4-5)
After the Holy Ghost is poured out Peter commands all new believers to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (water) and to receive the Holy Ghost (spirit).
- Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:37)
If the Church confirms your confession of faith they baptise you in water (Ethiopian Eunuch) or they decline (Simon the Magus). (John 20:23),
- Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (John 20:23)
If God confirms you, he baptises you in Spirit. Here, Peter is preaching and God just does it.
- While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (Acts 10:44)
- Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:10-14)
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve. (Acts 19:1-7)
Whatsoever is bound on earth, is bound in heaven. God's true Church is His Bride - they are united and work together for the salvation of humanity. (see again Acts 8:36-37)
Restructuring the Biblical pattern for conversion to align with modern theology has dire eternal consequences when the resulting teaching is not in harmony with the Apostle’s Doctrine or of Jesus' recorded words. Tragically, such errors undermine the believer from receiving the fullness of their inheritance and deprive the believer from receiving the victorious power intended by God for their journey.
If a believer is fooled into thinking they are regenerated when they believe, and already in a Covenant they are not actually in, then that stops them seeking the Baptism of the Holy Spirit because they have reasoned they already have what they need of God.
These therefore veer off into a mode of Christian belief outside of a true Covenant relationship with Christ - one that void of power, anointing, and true sanctification which prompts them to devise all manner of "excuse teachings" to explain the delta between the Apostolic experience of the "dynamos" and their current state.
I have actually heard several individuals, when confronted about their need for Holy Spirit Baptism, arrogantly make statements like "I have all the Holy Ghost I need!"
Enter cessationism, etc. This is what is referred to in the Scripture by "having a form of godliness"
- Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (2 Tim 3:5)
Again we MUST stop wrestling scripture to fit our mindsets and we must allow it to speak for itself.
God forbid that should ever be the case that you or I ever have enough of God's presence in our lives to be satisfied!
Perhaps all of this is best summarized in Acts 22:16 when Paul recounts what Ananias told him upon his conversion to Jesus Christ. One CAN NOT be a biblically accurate Christian and extricate the rite of baptism from the remission of sins for it is at that moment we enter into His glorious covenant through the circumcision of our hearts.
- And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (Acts 22:16)(KJV)
- And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’(Acts 22:16)(NIV)